Queer, Black, Intersectional Davidson: An Archival Project

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Interview with Kaiya Carter
March 27, 2019
Davidson, NC


By Lily Burdick
Transcribed by Lily Burdick





Lily Burdick: Okay. Recognizing that our identities are complex, in flux, and especially
evolving and changing in college, how do you think about and describe your identity or
identities?

Kaiya Carter: Um, well I guess the one we’re talking about is me being bi. That’s a big
one. Um, and being black, which is another big one (laughs). Um, and I feel like there just like
they weren’t necessarily identities that I, like saw, and was like, “yeah, that’s me!” It was more
just like I eventually just realized that they were how I saw the world. Once I came out here, I
realized that my whole life, I’ve been pretty damn gay, and I just didn’t think that was a gay
thing to do. Like, I had this poster of Aaliyah, the singer, in this really small crop top and like
really tight pants when I was a kid, and it ripped, and I cried for a long time and tried to stick it
back together with stickers. And my mom was like “why are you so upset, like it’s okay we can
get you another one.” And I’m like, “but it ripped right across her face and abs” and it’s like,
pretty gay, but looking back it’s just like “I think she’s a great singer.” And, I mean, obviously
being black, it’s something that I’ve always been, but like, have become more aware of as I’ve
gotten older, so I guess there’s just like identities that found me more than I found them. I hope
that answers the question.

LB: Yeah! What terms do you use to describe your gender/sexuality/race, and what does
queer mean to you.

Carter: So I use black for my race. African American when people are being weird, or I’m
joking because African American is just so, I don’t know. It just, like, I know that’s what they
would use in like a census but it doesn’t feel right to use in conversation. It just feels very hoity
toity. African American, like okay. Especially because it’s a word that white people like to use


when they don’t want to say black, for some reason. Which like, just say it! That’s what I am!
Like, it’s not like you’re calling me the n-word, like, I am black! Hello! And then, I use bi, though
I guess that’s just like first word I saw, and then I started seeing like pan, and that feels like it
might fit more. But also, a lot less people know what pan is. And then you always get that like,
“oh you like kitchen utensils,” kinda joke, so it’s just like, also I’m not super concerned with just
the word, just because I am attracted to who I am attracted to, and then, like, me saying “I’m
bi” hopefully won’t chase anyone off any more or less than pan would, so it’s just kind of like…I
like people!

LB: Less work for explaining? Less labor?

Carter: Yeah! Because then pan is like “what’s that?” And I have to describe, like explain
all sorts of things. And then gender, I’m a woman. That’s just how I feel, even though woman
and man are really two very arbitrarily grouped categories these days. So like, I just feel like
that word is right, probably because of what I’ve learned as I go through my life, but that’s just
what I use. Um, and then queer, I guess, it seems like a catch-all term. Like very umbrella-y for
like anyone on the LGBTQ+++ spectrum. Um, and I kinda say it when I’m talking about people
who may not have the same identity as me, like they could be gay, they could be trans, they
could be ace, like all of that. I group that together as queer because like, we’re not all straight
and cis, or any of those things, so, that’s how I define it anyone. I don’t know if that’s the book
definition of it, but that’s what I use it for.

LB: Yeah, I think the book definition is like, a little iffy just because it’s changed so many
times, and like, I think how it’s used now is more of a reclamation.



Carter: Yeah, because it could be used as an insult still, but only by like very old people.
Someone says “you’re queer,” and I’m like YES. (laughs). Sure am! Glad we’re clear on that.

LB: As you know, I am working on a project for an independent study called the Queer
Black South, and I am particularly interested in recuperating documents from the recent past
that talk about the intersections between queer and black at this college. So, I guess, how
would you describe queer black life at Davidson today, in your experiences?

Carter: Um, it’s a bit disjointed, to be honest. Like, I know a good amount of queer black
people that either, especially like, last year, and when I first came out, um, what was that,
junior year? No, that was sophomore year. Towards the end of sophomore year. I realized that
there are a lot of like, pods of black queer people on this campus. Like there was a bit where a
ton of the AKAs were queer, but they like, kept to themselves, because AKAs in general do that.
There were like, the Jalen, for example, he kind of like, does his own thing, hangs out with black
queer people, but like, we never, like, none of us ever get together all at once, and like do
anything. Which might be an issue, obviously won’t be fixed in my time, because it’s near May,
but it’s very like, separate. But I also know that at any time, if I were to go to someone that
were black and queer here, they would probably have my back in some way. So it’s like, not
complete strangers, but just not, like, we all hang out together. Which is a little sad, but also, I
mean, it’s worked. So.

LB: How has your identity changed over time at Davidson? Just because, I think, you did
like have some sort of shift.

Carter: Oh, 100%. So I came here thinking I was straight. That was, wild. I thought I was
a really good ally for a really long time. And then, I think sophomore year is when I really


started to figure out like, you’ve been hiding this for a long time. From like, yourself. Which is
weird, because like, I’m the last person who would like, hate me. So I just feel weird that I like
hid it from myself most of all. Like my family, okay. Because it’s scary. But like me, girl. It’s me!
(laughs). So yeah, I thought I was straight for a bit. And I really think that part of that my big, in
Turner, she was bi. Vance is gay. Ky, is, I don’t actually know how Ky identifies. That’s probably
a question I need to ask before we graduate. I just, I know she’s queer, I just don’t know if she’s
gay, bi, or any of those things. Because, I mean, it changes, so I’ve never known. But they, like
Vance and Allegra especially, they like, took me under their gay wings. Like when I came out to
Allegra I think her words were “we’ve been knew.” And I was like, “how did you know (laughs)
when I didn’t know?” Or, I knew, but I pretended I didn’t know, so they really like, ushered me
slowly out of the closet. And then, I’ve just been growing queerer by the day, in terms of just
like, how comfortable I am with it, how much I say it in sentences during the day. So, freshman
year me would be like, real confused, but hopefully in a good way.

LB: What was coming out at Davidson like? Did you have a good experience, did you feel
like it was, I guess, like, a good thing for you? I know coming out isn’t for everyone..

Carter: It was scary, because I thought like, I came here and made all these friends as
one person and I am now not really changing who I am, but like to them it could be that I am
changing who I am, so it was very, very scary. Especially to my straight friends. Like Vance and
Allegra, they were like the first people I told because I knew like, I really highly doubted that
they would hate me for it, because then they would be hating themselves, too, and that doesn’t
make, they’re not, neither of them are known for their self hatred (laughs). So I figured they
would be safe. I think the next person I came out to was Annie, and I knew that Annie would


just be like “okay” (laughs) and that’s almost exactly what she said, I think, “okay.” But, it was
scary, like I just, and then once I came out to my friends like, slowly putting it into conversation,
like working it into things I would say, it just got scarier and scarier. Just because I know
Davidson is, like, a pretty liberal place, but I was still afraid because I know that there are those
pockets of people who are liberal about this, but not so much about other things, and that me
being bi could be one of those other things. So it was scary, but all worked out in the end. And I
haven’t actually met as much biphobia as I expected, so, it was not a bad process looking back,
but when I did it it was (makes scared noise).

LB: Yeah, and speaking of looking back, what do you think you’re going to remember
about Davidson’s queer/black life/queer black life after you graduate, which, you know, that’s
coming up.

Carter: Oh dear God. I think I’ll remember, I guess just how even though, like I said we
aren’t very tight-knit, um, like, even the queer community isn’t super, like we’re more tight knit
in general than the queer black community. But there are still a lot of pockets of people who
don’t come to events, and people who come to events, but only when they have alcohol, and
that kind of thing, which like, mood. But I think I’ll just remember how supportive this
community has been even though we aren’t all like, very great friends. I feel like, at any point, if
something were to happen to a member of the queer community, I’d be like, well, so when are
we fighting, who are we fighting, when is it happening, who do I have to call for this, do I have
to write a letter for someone, um, and I feel like a good amount of them, well, at least the ones
that I interact with most, would do the same. So it’s like a, even if we’re not very close, I’ll


remember always, I think, that we are here for each other. We are family. Kind of (laughs). Like
lightly estranged family (laughs).

LB: Based on what I have found in the archives from 1985/6-2003, which is where I am
right now, but I will be going farther, intersectionality hasn’t been discussed on campus in a big
way. So how do you perceive campus culture surrounding queer people of color today, here at
Davidson – like what is your perception of how things are being talked about?

Carter: There is definitely a shift toward talking about intersections more. Especially
with the new diversity and inclusions person, Dr. Dre, she has like, queer people of color
lunches and dinners and stuff, and we get together and do things as like, non-white people, and
it’s very fun, because within that there are opportunities to see more of my fellow black queer
people that I wouldn’t see every day. Because they tend, because there’s free food and there’s
very low commitment, more of them tend to come than they would to like, a Q&A meeting, or
YANASH, or something like that. I feel like those spaces are like, very white, and not necessarily
in like a super bad way, just like in a, like, I know, once I’ve been to one I know what I’m getting
into, and I could or could not go. Um, but these are, they feel more precious, because like, I
don’t know, I feel like especially for seniors I feel like we feel we need to take advantage of this
while we are here. So there’s definitely been, this semester really, well this year, but a lot this
semester, like, more like, “look, we’re doing things not just as queer people but as queer people
of color, and specifically this kind of color,” and there’s just been a lot more conversations
about what we’re doing, and why there hasn’t been much stuff in the past. Which really bodes
well for Davidson, I think. A small step for Davidson College (laughs).



LB: So, I know you came to Davidson thinking that you were straight, which means that
maybe weren’t thinking a ton coming into this community about what it would be like to be
queer and black on campus, but do you recall what you might have thought about in terms of
black life before you got to Davidson?

Carter: It was kind of wild coming in because my high school was essentially a smaller
scale Davidson but much less liberal in terms of it being private, very white, very rich, like, the
owner of the Baltimore branch of, no I’m sorry, the CEO of the Baltimore branch of GE, his son
went to my school, and got our lights turned on, once. It was snowing and the power was out
and his son was like “I wanna go to school” so he got them turned on, like just like that. Like the
kind of just irresponsible wealth that went to my high school. So I was kind of used to the kind
of school that Davidson was. But I think I was a little scared, and when I got here overwhelmed
by just the sheer amount – there are a lot more white people here than I have ever seen in my
life, because my neighborhood is majority black, and we might have like two white neighbors
now. Two. Maybe. Honestly, I don’t know anymore. So, I was kind of overwhelmed, at first, by
the sheer amount of whiteness and the cultural things that I was expected to know coming in
here, and I’m just like, we didn’t do that – black people don’t do that at home.

LB: Like what?

Carter: We didn’t, like, I don’t know, my mom didn’t listen to classic rock, like apparently
everyone else’s white parents did. She didn’t and still doesn’t, like I play that in my house my
mom would be like “what the hell is this” like she might know what it is but she’d be like “turn
that shit off” so it just, it was, I know people use the term “culture shock” a lot to talk about


coming to college, but that was really what it was. I was just like, “Holy Shit, this is a whole new
world, it feels like.”

LB: Where on campus do you feel like you’ve found your spot, your place, your
community? And it can be multiple places, obviously.

Carter: The lavender lounge. Less so now that it’s moved and it has like, it’s a little less
comfy than it used to be which is funny because it used to be in RLO and you had to like walk
past all the deans to get there, but something about it was just cozier. Now that it’s in that like,
kinda sterile new room, with the glass windows, it’s a little less comfy, but still cool. I think
Turner has increasingly become a place that I feel a lot more comfortable being queer. Also
being black, even though Turner is overwhelmingly white, like I feel like I can be my authentic
self there and people would encourage me, which is really exciting. I think, sometimes RLO,
depends on the task and the group I’m with, like my Duke gang, all us RA’s in Duke, Terry and
Addison are just great people, and I can just rant to them about random shit that does not
pertain to them at all and they’re like “oh hell yeah, tell us more,” and like, they’re just very
supportive colleagues, which I really appreciate, so, those are all the big places on campus for
me that I just really feel like I can safely be myself and have fun and not have to worry about
what people think of me, like “should I be doing this here?” That kind of thing.

LB: Is there anywhere on campus where you have felt that way? Where you’ve been
like, “oh my gosh, like, this is not a place for me to be myself and I have to perform something
or someone else?”

Carter: I think classrooms. Well, some of them. Like my Chinese class, I talk about loving
women at least every five minutes (laughs) it’s pretty wild, I think. Because I’m the oldest, and I


think that’s what it is – I’m the oldest in the room and we’ve been together for about four
semesters now, they’re my like, kind of friends as well as classmates. Because Chinese, and
struggling at it, bonds. So I just talk to them about random shit. I walked in today and I was like
“y’all, I got a fuckin’ job.” And we just like got derailed for five minutes because we were talking
about my job. But like, other classes it just feels like I just step in and immediately I’m some
kind of representative for queerness or blackness or both, or I feel like I have to keep it to
myself because I know that other people in the room would have like opinions I don’t feel like
hearing about it, or just like, it wouldn’t, nobody would want the perspective even though it’s
needed. Sometimes I feel a little stifled in class settings, and then, I’m trying to think. For the
most part I’ve grown so confident in my identity, at least here, that I feel like I can step most
places besides classrooms and be pretty damn gay and pretty damn black and if people have a
problem with it, then I don’t care. But classrooms are kind of one of those places that that feels
like, like that confidence is suspended for a bit. Which sucks, but, it is what it is, I guess.
LB: Do you have anything else that you want to say or talk about?
Carter: I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how, like, straight, I was coming in here, and
how I had this brief stint in middle school where I think I was my most authentic self, and then
something, I don’t know what, like frightened me back into the closet, I guess. I don’t know
what that was. In middle school, I’m pretty sure I had friends that knew that I liked women and
men and all gender identities and that was cool, and then high school I was like “NOPE.” So I
don’t know what did that, but whatever that was, it was undone here. By friends, family – well,
not really family – but my friends that I consider my family.

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